Outskirts Overland Podcast
Welcome to the Outskirts Overland Podcast, your go-to source for all things overlanding! Hosted by a seasoned adventurer with over 15 years of experience, this podcast offers a genuine and down-to-earth exploration of the overlanding lifestyle. Whether you're a seasoned traveler or just starting out, join us as we delve into the essentials of gear and equipment, share captivating stories from the road, and provide practical tips for your next adventure. Tune in for insightful interviews, expert advice, and a community of like-minded explorers who share a passion for discovering the world beyond the beaten path. Get ready to fuel your wanderlust and embark on unforgettable journeys with the Outskirts Overland Podcast!
Outskirts Overland Podcast
Hard Truths: What 100 nights in a roof top tent really taught me
The real-world durability of rooftop tents rarely matches the glossy marketing photos. After logging over 100 nights and 400 open-close cycles in my $3,000 tent, I'm sharing some hard-earned wisdom about maintenance, condensation management, and whether premium pricing actually delivers premium performance.
My recent weekend project involved completely resealing and waterproofing my tent after discovering moisture issues. I'll walk you through exactly what products I used (Gear Aid Seam Grip and Nikwax), the techniques that worked, and why this kind of maintenance is inevitable regardless of brand or price point. For those battling condensation, I offer game-changing advice about anti-condensation mats and the surprising benefits of air mattresses over foam ones.
But the deeper question I'm wrestling with might resonate with many of you: Is splurging on expensive overlanding gear actually worth it? After experiencing similar issues with both my $800 entry-level tent and my current mid-range model, I'm questioning the value proposition of premium pricing. Would I be better served investing in top-tier gear at $4,500, or should I return to budget-friendly options that can be replaced more frequently?
This episode goes beyond gear talk to explore what really matters when you're miles from nowhere. We discuss the pros and cons of different shelter systems, including why sleeping inside your vehicle might actually be the superior option. I also share unexpected gear discoveries like why my discounted Swiss Army knife has become one of my most-used tools despite having fancier alternatives.
Whether you're new to overlanding or a seasoned veteran, this honest conversation about gear expectations versus reality will help you make smarter investments in your setup. Join me for some straight talk about what actually matters when building a reliable, comfortable camping system that fits your specific needs.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome back to Outskirts Overland. I took a well unintentionally kind of took a week off. It wasn't at all what I intended to do. I was just real busy in the mornings, I guess. So here I am. I'm going to be talking about, you know, last weekend and the week, but I did put a post up earlier than today.
Speaker 1:Last weekend, sunday I think, I resealed like reseam sealed inside and out my tent and waterproofed it. I guess I reseam sealed my awning as well and re-waterproofed it. I was getting condensation in it when it was even like sealed up, which wasn't something that was happening. So as I tracked down the culprit to that, I noticed it was coming through the seams, which, again, guys, that's not like, oh my gosh, it's failing that waterproof tape when you fold the tent up and down enough times. It's not permanent and, quite frankly, it's not made to be permanent. So I just ripped all that tape off where it had delaminated on the inside and resealed it and then re-waterproofed it. Those of you that listen to this podcast for any amount of time ever know I washed the awning in the tent with Nikwax and then re-waterproofed with Nikwax as well.
Speaker 1:Different products, solar wash for the tent and the awning, and then solar proof for the tent and the awning, waterproofer and UV protectant. But I did use Gear Aid, and I think it's called Seam Grip plus WP. It's Seam Grip plus WP or Seam Seal plus WP, and then there's also a Seam Seal FC, which stands for Fast Cure. I did use both. So on the inside of the tent I used the Fast Cure and then the waterproof on top of it, because I wanted to kind of, the fast cure is way more liquid, so I wanted it to get into the seams if there was any like actual little pinholes. So from the inside I used the, the fast cure, on all the seams on the inside, then went over it with the thicker, the more permanent. You know, w know WP, which is thick. It's more like almost like an epoxy of types, and then I used the thick stuff on the outside of the same seals just to dump. You know, make sure I'm not taking in any water there.
Speaker 1:You know, one thing that I wanted to touch on here, though, and one thing that I think I think it's extremely common now if you buy a newer rooftop tent but I don't know that I think it was common previously is my rooftop tent came with it. This isn't like some magic thing that I thought up and I like I am not captaining this discovery but I have an anti-conensation mat in my tent and my earlier rooftop tents just had a bare floor. They didn't have an anti-condensation mat. So I think one thing also. I'm talking about waterproofing, but condensation in your tent can happen just from huge temperature fluctuations, from, like, the hot and the cold. So like if you wake up in the morning and there's a lot of dew on the ground, even if your tent's closed up because it was so hot the day before, potentially you may still have some moisture in there just from that fluctuation, and that doesn't mean you've got a leak or anything. That's just a fluctuation in the temperature. So that's something to note. So having an anti-condensation mat so you're not, you know, accumulating mold underneath your mattress is something that I think is very, very important.
Speaker 1:I did look prior to the podcast to make sure that you could just just buy an anti-condensation mat, and you absolutely can. You could. Based on how they they look, like they're made and stuff. I bet you could get the fabric and just cut it too, like it's. I guess it's not fabric, it's more of like a. It's more of like a, a mesh PVC type mat.
Speaker 1:I don't know, if you guys look up anti-con rooftop tent, anti-conensation mat, you'll find a few. There's not a ton, but you can buy them, um, and I would. I would, I would highly recommend having one. My first two rooftop tents didn't have one, and this most recent one that I have now I guess it's about a year and a half old it has one and it is a noticeable difference to condensation underneath the mattress, because that's a place even with the diesel heater and everything, you're trapping that hot air.
Speaker 1:When you're sleeping You're trapping that down on the base of the tent, kind of, and then it is it. It's getting trapped there because you're hot. So if it's cold outside and you're hot or vice versa, you know which is why you get that in there, like it gets cooled off on the base and it's hot on the inside because it was hot earlier in the day, you're going to get that condensation. That anti-condensation mat under your mattress helps a lot. Another thing that helps a lot and I I mean I've talked about it and I it helps.
Speaker 1:Like again, there's pros and cons of everything, but if you have an air mattress, man, they're so much thinner and lighter when they're sucked down. They help so freaking much guys, if you can find one that'll last. I mean, it is helpful versus a foam one. And if you could buy a tent anymore, looking at tents anymore, finding my very first tent had a three inch or three and a half inch, you know, uh, high density memory foam and it was so comfortable. But it was like one of the first like style, like smitty belts or you know, the tan fold out with, like aluminum poles, detachable rain fly, like it was an older one. But, man, I don't know, I hated putting that tent up, getting it out and putting it up, setting it up and putting it away. But, man, you, when you slept in it though it was a nice sleep, um, and my wet, my wedge, or clamshell, however you want to call them.
Speaker 1:I have the triangular type that just pops up. You know, essentially it stays fixed in the front and pops up in the back. So much easier up and putting up in a way less comfortable though. So I'd like to, man, I wish I could bridge that gap, which is why I keep trying an air mattress, but I keep. I do keep warranting air mattresses because I I don't maybe I'm unlucky, but I can't get them to stay to keep air in or keep air out. So I'll open my tent and the freaking air mattress has, you know, they're self-inflating. So it's inflated itself and and I'm like, when the heck? I keep getting a hold of companies, i'm'm like, and they're leaking at the seals. The mattress has no holes, like. It's very easy to tell, like I'm not deaf, I know where it's leaking. It's loud, like, but it's doing the same thing. When it's filled up, it's deflating. So I'm like, dude, I just got to find one that works.
Speaker 1:I had an X-Ped in my side. Fold out my most recent hard shell like iCamper style. I had an X-Ped in that and it just won't fit in this one, but that thing was flawless. X-peds are so much money but now, having spent more money on two different ones to try and find one that not only is the right size but that will work, which I still haven't yet For the pop-up that I have the wedge the X-Ped's worth it. They just don't make an X-Ped. I'm going to probably end up getting two smaller X-Peds or something.
Speaker 1:The X-Peds actually work. They cost more. But there's a freaking. Obviously there's a reason, because my X-Ped's still now. I've had it for, I guess, three years and now it's not in my tent anymore. Okay, so it's in the garage but the kids use it, we use it in the Gazelle the X-Ped. It's a queen size X-Ped, we use it in the Gazelle tent and it doesn't have any problems at all, still perfect, like it's great. So hopefully I can figure this freaking thing out. But they make a huge difference in condensation because you can deflate them. They're real light and they kind of create a little bit. It's not such a, I guess, hostile environment for moisture, cause there's places air can get around them and stuff because there's so much lighter and thinner when you uh suck the air out of them. Anyways, that's not what I was here to talk about.
Speaker 1:I did re-seam, seal and waterproof my tent. I got that all done and did the awning too. What? What led me to that is, I had been, like I said I'd been taking in a little water from one of the like and again, not taking in water. But I noticed almost always my, my mattress by the up, near where I'd put my head toward the back of the passenger side, where I tend to sleep consistently, had a little moisture in it, but only there and not moisture like water standing or anything like that, but it had a little more moisture accumulation than anywhere else. So the first place I started was was with the outside seals, like the seals of the tent, like the weather stripping, and I was like, okay, so I re-silicone those, clean the surfaces.
Speaker 1:You know, I thought well, maybe, even maybe, like I wheel hard enough and the tent's been hit enough. I was like maybe the tent's slightly bent there, like just, I mean you can't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not, it's aluminum. Things could bend, like maybe it bent up or something, and and from a visible, from a visual inspection side, that doesn't appear to be the case. I'm still not. I've still not, you know, um, ruled that out. I mean you could bend your tent. My Zargis case those of you that go to who I'm going to nail this right here those of you who go to the over of America, use code OUTSKIRTSTEN to buy your tickets. But those of you that go to Overland of America, you'll look at my Zargus case and see it's absolutely been smoked, it's dented too. So it's possible that my tent is also slightly dented or deformed. If that's the case, I'm more okay with that even than a quality control issue with the seams and everything else.
Speaker 1:Let me backtrack. That's probably not appropriate. I've had over 100 nights on the tent, which minimum means it's been opened and closed 200 times. Then I open and close it to wash it, clean it, take stuff out of it, air it out. I mean I've probably opened and closed the tent Dude, I don't even know 400 times. Let's go ahead and say 400. When I'm getting ready, when I'm coming home, when I'm opening it to sleep in it, closing it to leave, like probably 400 times. So the tent's been in the weather, it's been opened and closed. That's going to be hard on all those seams. It is a wedge, so like the seams are straight, the tent folds in half. A lot of stuff is stressed by doing that. I've got that elastic band around it that sucks it all in Like those are all going to be wear points. So I don't know that is I want to say the word quality control, probably just maintenance.
Speaker 1:This is the rooftop tent that I think I have had the most nights in. Maybe, maybe, maybe it is because I slept in the back of the truck so I had the well, I don't know. I had my first rooftop 10 on two different trucks. I had it on my titan and my tacoma. But when I first built out to the coma I was single dude, no girlfriend, just going by myself. So I built it, I slept in the back and, man, I've said it like a thousand million times to you guys, I'm a huge advocate of a rooftop tent versus a lot of things. But there's one thing that is better than a rooftop tent and that is sleeping in the physical vehicle. That's so nice, it's better insulation, it's better for noise, like I've slept through more rain without hearing it, wind without hearing it, like sleeping because I had a camper shell on it so I could sleep in the back and it was sealed really well.
Speaker 1:But again, guys, if you can manage to find a way, like if you have a larger SUV and you don't have take people with you or kids or anything, and you can turn your you know have, take people with you or kids or anything and you could turn your you know forerunner or land cruiser or lexus top like chevy, tahoe, whatever, into a two-seater and make the back of it a sleeping platform and drawer system and stuff. Like man, that's the best. That's the best, that's the dream, that's the best by far, because you don't even have to make your bed Like. I used to just fold up my pillows and stuff them somewhere, so when I was wheeling they weren't flying up and hit me in the face and that was it, dude, and it was. We're good to go Like. It was solid. I had racks on the top so I actually had storage on the top with boxes versus a rooftop tent. You know, it was just good. I just really enjoyed that. So I digress there.
Speaker 1:But just regular maintenance on the tent is is probably just. You got to re-waterproof it. This is my second, third time, third time this is my third time washing and re-waterproofing the exterior of the tent. So just to be clear, like this is my third time. This is the third time that I have solar washed and solar proofed the tent itself.
Speaker 1:I've never done any of the seals inside or out and I have re-waterproofed the well, not even re-waterproofed immediately when I got the awning. I never think awnings are very well waterproofed, so every time I get an awning which makes no sense, right, and the awnings are always out in the harshest sun, I feel like. So, anyways, I I waterproofed the awning immediately upon installing it. So this is the second time the awning's been washed. Well, I didn't wash it, I just waterproofed it when I bought it, assuming it was clean. That might be dumb, don't know, but it's what I did.
Speaker 1:And just because I was doing all this work on the tent, I re-waterproofed the awning too. I did it. It wasn't it wasn't watering out or anything, but I just did do it because I already was doing everything else. So I waterproofed the awning and redid the seals on the awning as well. But I think that's probably just maintenance. Like if, if every couple of years 18 months to two years I have to redo the seals and stuff, like that's fine.
Speaker 1:Like I mean my rooftop tent and I've said it a thousand times like I have a 23 zero Kabari rooftop tent, but I'm doing everything in the world I can to try and prolong it, noticing that the heat is affecting it. You know, I told you guys I vinyl wrap the top white, but that's very recent. So all this other heat that we've been getting in, humidity and temperature fluctuations of having the tent open and down, like that's all going to wear on the seals Like that's all going to wear on the seals. It's going to be hard on the seals, you know, just from the heat itself. And then you go in the winter and I've got, I'm inside the tent and I've got the diesel heater going. So it's a con, that's a constant heat on the tent too and the fabric. You know that's stressful on the fabric. My rooftop tent is old enough to where it doesn't have a diesel heater port. So I'm I'm putting it through a window. You know, I think that's probably hard on some things.
Speaker 1:But it's a 23-0 Cabari, it's a 2003,. You know, I don't know what they cost. It's by far not a high-grade tent. You know, is it high quality for the price point? Yeah for sure. But I wouldn't say it's high quality overall. You know, like it's not a Bush Company, all aluminum. It's not the Cab company, all aluminum. It's not the Cabari pro, all aluminum. It's not a Alucab. You know, three gen three are like it's still a plastic and aluminum. Like it's a plastic and aluminum. What do they call it? Like aluminum honeycomb, it's like a honeycomb. Insulated aluminum shell, plastic shell. None of the extrusion is aluminum. It's all plastic like it's it's.
Speaker 1:It's not a low-grade tent by any means, it's a mid-grade tent. But also I've got a mid-grade tent that I'm using six nights a month. You know, like I, to be quite honest that I've gotten I don't count but so every year I try to do a thousand hours outside, and a thousand hours outside it's 41 days. I hit 40. I hit a thousand hours outside this year before April. So that's, if that tells you guys anything like. So I, just being a realistic individual, like my tents, maybe, if high quality is, you know, to make an analogy of it, if high quality is Toyota and low quality is Kia, like just spitballing here, my tent's probably like a geez, I don't even know, like a, maybe a Nissan, like it's not, it's not bad, but it's not top grade, you know what I mean Like it's not a Honda, it's not a Toyota, it's it's, you know it's maybe a little better than a Hyundai, you know, just to make sense of it.
Speaker 1:And it stinks, because $3,000 is a lot of money but it's also a huge. There's a lot that goes into a tent, from the fabrics to the sewing, to the geometry, to the aluminum, the honeycomb, insulation, the plastic, like the floor, like all of it. So I mean I know it's expensive, but like $3,000 is a lot of money too. So I'm like man. I mean I know it's expensive, but like $3,000 is a lot of money too. So I'm like man, I want this thing to be magic. But the reality is I just should have, not should have. I don't want to say should have, but could have spent the additional thousand and got the top of the line of pretty much any brand Intrepid, 23-0, cvt, bush Company, you know any of those brands make it Alucab, go Fast.
Speaker 1:Camper makes an all-aluminum tent. You know that are completely aluminum welded. You know extrusions, you know aluminum welded welded. You know extrusions. You know high quality, for another $800 to $1,000. And but I didn't.
Speaker 1:And I honestly, honestly, guys, I do do regret that. I do regret that actually, um, my next tent I I hope to get a tent, my next tent, one that I can just zip in and zip out the fabric, so I can buy replacement fabric, like the frame will remain but you can zip out the actual fabric of the tent so I can just replace it. Because I think now, having resealed all these seals and see the poles on the strings and stuff, like see how they're kind of like, how things are holding up. Unfortunately I do not believe this tent has more than another 18 months in it. Um, for four season camping it's got more than another 18 months in it, summer camping, you know, without rain, without cold, without cold, without wind, like it'll be a decent single season. I mean, it'd still be a good single season tent, probably in a year and a half, two years, but I don't see it being a viable four season for me. So I don't know. I wish I had advice for everybody there. My advice might be to keep buying the freaking fold out Smittybilt for 800 bucks and just riding it till it dies. You know they stick up further, but the covers are all rubberized. I mean you can just freaking gorilla seal the cover If it gets a hole, like you've got a third of the money in it, until I get a top of the line one and can tell you it's worth four grand or 4,500 bucks.
Speaker 1:I had less issues. I had far less issues. How do I explain this? I had, no, I had the same issues with my $800 rooftop tent, but it was also not $3,000.
Speaker 1:So so like, was the juice worth the squeeze? Did it have blackout fabric? No, could you see the sun coming through in the morning? Yes, but was that like a? Is that like a deal breaker? None, it wasn't, for me anyways, I put a diesel heater in it. It stayed warm.
Speaker 1:The mattress was not an air mattress or you know. It was like a cheaper memory foam, but I could fold it up and all my bedding fit in it. Like, was the rain fly? A completely separate thing and for sure not the best. Yeah, it was, that's the case. Yes, but again, I wasn't wet much Like. It worked fine. It stuck up about eight inches taller, nine inches taller than the one that's on there now. But I did, I used it. I mean, I did it. It freaking was fine.
Speaker 1:Like so, as far as rooftop tents go, I love rooftop tents. I love being off the ground, you know, not dealing with being muddy all the time. It's a little easier to stay clean. Typically a larger and actually flat footprint. I like all those things, but I don't know where I stand at. Do you get the low grade Like?
Speaker 1:So I say, $800 fold-out tent, maybe. Like what? Are they Nature or top oak? Well, top oaks are getting more expensive. I know that for a fact. But like, maybe one of those is the way to go. Maybe that's what I try next. Maybe maybe, instead of going up to the top of the line, maybe I take a step back and see if I can buy the bottom of the line and see how long I can get it to last, because I just really don't know which direction to go.
Speaker 1:But I am not in it for the clout. Like, I want to sleep. Well, I need it to last long enough for my money. You know, I'd really like this one to last me four or five years for as much money as it would cost. So we'll see. I mean, maybe I've just made it better than it would cost. So we'll see. I mean, maybe I've just made it better than it ever was. You know, maybe I just made it. You know, maybe it's sealed better now than it ever was to begin with and the Nikwax stuff will preserve it way better. Maybe it's way better than what they put on it from the factory etc. You know, like, maybe that's the case, hopefully that's the case and we'll see. But it is a, it's a conundrum in my life all the time, like, do I just go back to a regular, like older style fold out. Like I don't know, the older style fold out is even the right word, but just, uh, just just that style. So yeah, so that's what I did this weekend.
Speaker 1:I've been kind of going through my camp kit. We actually had some decent weather yesterday. It was like in the seventies, low eighties. So I was outside quite a bit just going through stuff and looking at it and seeing what I could, what I could, what I could maybe optimize more. And I told you guys, like in the last podcast I had a couple of recommendations like the fan and the headlamp. I think those are really like, actually still very applicable.
Speaker 1:But I was looking through stuff you know, and just trying to go through, like my cooking stuff and like bowls. So I was looking at some some sea to summit collapsible bowls. They make like silicone and stainless steel bowls so you can still cook with them, like you can still put hot stuff in them. They're not plastic bottom. They do also make plastic bottomed ones. So that's for backpacking, more probably so than overlanding. But they also make stainless steel ones. So I was looking at those. Those could save me a little bit of space, but I don't know that they're going to save me any weight. Right now I have like MSR stainless steel plate bowl type things. They're like a curved plate. I don't know, am I getting? I don't know, I might just be looking at crap to look at it, so I was like, well, maybe that could save me some space, but also everything fits now. So I don't know. So I've just been looking at that kind of stuff, you know, going through my kit, thinking of past experiences.
Speaker 1:One thing I will tell you guys, and it just came to mind because I have it like in a deck drawer system, there's a little square at the very front. I don't know how to explain that, but like right on the other side of the, on the other side of the Handle, where you like pull the handle out, there's a little square. And one thing I bought A while ago that and I think I mentioned it on the podcast I bought a freaking Swiss Army knife, a Huntsman one. So it's got like scissors. It's got like scissors and a saw and two knives and screwdriver bottle opener, all that stuff. I use the shit. I use the heck out of that thing. I use it so much. And the best thing about that freaking swiss army knife is it doesn't hold. It doesn't necessarily hold an edge that great, but I legit just freaking, I don't care, so I just throw a honing stone on it a couple times and it's good enough. Like nothing about that tool is like out of this world. I've used the, saw a bunch on like little twigs and stuff. Man, it's just a good little tool. I I still.
Speaker 1:I had a coupon, a coupon. I had a coupon. Uh, swiss army knives. There's an alpine shop by us. For those of you that don't know what Alpine shop is, it's like a, it's like a small REI, like real small kind of Alpine shop. And they I had like a I'm like one of their members or whatever. You guys know how it goes and I had a bunch of points and so I had like 40% off and then those things were another 20% off and they let me combine them. So I got a Swiss army knife like a Huntsman for like I don't know. I don't even think it was 20 bucks, I think I paid 15 bucks for it and I think they're like 45 total, but you know smaller amounts. The discount doesn't go as far, but it was something that I had been looking at, thinking that potentially I might want tweezers or something I could use. So I was like, well, I could definitely use a toothpick, I could definitely use tweezers, the small blade, the longer blade or something. You know like you can never have enough blades for things. I was like, yeah, I'll just grab one of those, cause I didn't really need nothing else and I didn't want to spend a lot of money. So I just use my coupons and points and whatever on those and uh, so no big deal.
Speaker 1:But man, I use that thing a lot. Actually I use it way more than I thought I would. I find myself with a pocket knife in my pocket and I have a nice one. I have a spider co I think it's a para three like nice pocket knife, super sharp, real, I mean really for all intents and purposes, really really good pocket knife. But it's not a screwdriver or a bottle opener. It doesn't have a straight blade that I could pry with. Like I'll have that in my pocket and be getting in my deck system for that damn Swiss Army knife. I also have a Gerber and really only use the Gerber as a nail file and pliers, and I might even have a nail file on the damn Swiss Army knife.
Speaker 1:I haven't looked Well, I probably have looked, I don't recall but that's all I use. But I do use the pliers, but that's all. I use the I, but I do use the pliers and the wire cutters on the Gerber and that's why I have it. You know, cause I they slide out. You know it's a little easier, but but yeah, swiss army knife is something I would highly recommend to you guys. There's about a bajillion of them, so I wish I could be like Swiss army knife, but there's like 17 versions and you really probably need to look at them all, because some of them are going to have something that you like is a deal breaker, like going to have something or not have something that's a deal breaker, and some of them are gonna be like you know, completely useless. You're going to be like I don't need any of this stuff, like this is unapplicable to me completely. So I look at them. I think mine's the huntsman or the hunter or whatever it's got a saw. I wanted one with a saw. That was my biggest thing. I was like I want a saw. So but anyways, I'll keep you guys updated, updated.
Speaker 1:Uh, actually doing this podcast has me thinking, like today, this morning. I'm thinking while I'm doing it what do I do with this roof, do I? I have redone the rooftop tent like, spent probably I don't know 80 bucks on stuff to reseal it, re-waterproof it x, y and z, but, like gosh, I just hope it works. I don't want to take a rooftop tent off again. Those of you guys that have taken a rooftop tent off and put one on, I'm paying in the butt. But man, I still know. Do I go? Do I save money for the fancy dancy one or do I go cheap? I mean, I want a rooftop tent Period, but I just don't know which way to go.
Speaker 1:I would be lying to tell you guys that I think that high quality is the way to go, because I don't know if all of them are kind of the same quality and just price different based on brand recognition. That's very potential. So we'll see. May I reach out to some companies and see if there's one made, made in the US, with replaceable fabric. That would matter to me.
Speaker 1:But also, this is such a Rooftop tents are so new to the US, they might also be old to the US in 10 years. Like, who am I kidding? You know, I also be old to the US in 10 years. Like who am I kidding? You know I might be back in the dang gazelle anyways. I mean, let's be real here. If I'm thinking long-term, do I really think rooftop tents are going to maintain a market in the US, or is there going to be like a company or two that still do them? You know, on this fringe, you know who knows, man, I don't know. Anyways, guys, it's Friday. I may actually even podcast tomorrow, just because I, for whatever reason, didn't all week. So I'll catch you guys later. Keep it real, get outside, go camping, do the thing. Thanks for being here and I'll catch you guys later.
